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SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:11 am
by lossfizzle
I have finally been playing around more with SunVox. I notice that while it's hypothetically possible to set the ticks per line in each pattern with the 0F command, SV doesn't seem willing to honor two patterns with different simultaneous TPL settings (say, one pattern running 6 ticks per line while the other is set to run 4).

This isn't unusual among trackers, most of which don't like doing multiple patterns at all in the first place... but it is something that LGPT (and, apparently, LSDJ) can do. With my interest in wacky polyrhythms etc., it's something I'd really like to explore in a more powerful and keyboard-friendly sonic environment like SunVox that is already set up well for simultaneous patterns in its sequencing design.

My testing hasn't gone that far here, I've just noticed that SV will choose one TPL or the other when I have two patterns with distinct / simultaneous issued OF commands. It would be great if I could have a tick be the common base unit of time and have multiple patterns playing out independently with different TPL settings.

For instance, imagine a copy of one sixteen-line pattern with the standard 6 TPL, now set to play back twice as fast over its origin pattern with 0F 03... or exactly 33% faster with 0F 04... or all three playing at the same time at fixed canonical ratios, the only difference being the number after 0F.

Is this behavior feasible to add and/or something that could be easily implemented?

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:13 am
by Anforium
I would like this as well. Then it would be possible to not use note delays for polyrythms and such.

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:09 am
by NightRadio
I'm afraid it is too complex task for SunVox.
But. Try to use MetaModule for this. Create some song with different TPL and then load this song to MetaModule. With MetaModule you can play several different songs within the other song.

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:56 pm
by samrai katt kovboy
its a good idea as you could build up simple rhytm patterns in the metamodules that you can reuse over time- say if you had like a hundred different patterns in metamodules organized in this way you could get a groove going pretty fast...

peace out

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:22 pm
by NightRadio
Also don't forget that you can use 09 effect (set sample offset) with MetaModule to set its song position (in lines).

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:11 pm
by lossfizzle
Huh. Using songs as MetaModules offers some really interesting rhythmic options, although it's not ideal. Editing the contents of MetaModules is a pain (since it requires reopening the song itself for edits), and getting hardcore aleatory going requires the use of very long patterns and/or significant amounts of predone math.

What I found is that the TPL settings in each song used as a MetaModule doesn't matter, since the MM module has its own TPL setting and it seems to disregard the song's per-pattern / -line TPL settings or parameter passes altogether. But TPL can be dynamically changed, as can per-module tempo (!). I attached a little demo where one pattern has three MetaModules working in different TPLs which change every 64 lines, and the next pattern has the same modules changing tempi independently every 64 lines.

For this kind of simple cross-rhythm / phased stuff, SV works great (although I discovered a little bug too: SunVox will crash if a MetaModule is passed an 0400 command without a corresponding value in the xxyy column).

But it seems to me that if SunVox can handle all this, it should be able to do it with multiple patterns too. It has no problem calculating the right amount of space on the timeline for patterns with totally different line-number lengths, and also has no problem snapping those patterns correctly up against one another when patterns with odd numbers of lines (like, say, 9) are copied and pasted back into the timeline to create looping instances.

I understand that having multiple loops going on the timeline would be very difficult, but since SunVox has a DAW-like method for pattern placement, maybe the multiple TPL "issue" could be solved by having SunVox precalculate the actual length of each pattern when adjusted for all its OF calls. I have no idea. :)

Off topic, somewhat, but another (and hopefully easier?!) feature request - I would suggest adding a transposition controller to MetaModule. It would help in the use of MMs as "groove snippets", like Samurai suggests, without having to manually reopen, transpose, and save a new copy of each song for each transposition. (In my demo I'm having to use two entirely separate songs as MetaModules, even though they are just the exact same "song" / short pattern a perfect fifth apart.)

Re: SunVox: Independent ticks per line in multiple patterns

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:45 pm
by samrai katt kovboy
also thinking if it would be possible for you nightradio
to create a small rhytm sequencer that you could load up like a module with groove settings built in?

small pools of water grew and ate up my collection of sea